What will you tell the company if they come after more concessions YES or NO - Page 2

gremlin · February 10th, 2007, 08:53

i agree with jet doctor 100%

Use history to make your decision.
We gave more than we had to in 2003. We were laid off, work short staffed, lost the double time OT, sick days, vacations, and the list can go on............
AC is making record profits and loads, all on our backs and they refused to open the negots last summer, when we were trying to remove stupid things like thw 200hrs and negotiate for better conditions.

We are not even in bancrupcy anymore. Whe the hell do we have an arbitrator dedicated to air canada?
because he is related directly to someone in labour relations.

Then we get the sob story in 2009 that profits are going down? F*** them. We need these 2 theiving scoundrels to hit the road.

We need leadership. We neeed someone who the employees can trust.

RogerD@YYZ · March 29th, 2007, 08:25

Right on gremlin!

Except as we sadly see so often, unfortunately it's within our lot to have history repeat when we do not pay attention to learn the lessons.

You see, the trouble is we have little direct control over who leads this corporation, hell bent on taking care of themselves at the expense of workers and customers alike. They get away with it because we let them. We need to influence to irradicate the mindset that lets our masses be infected with the mode and mood of concessions. The pretext that allowed them to put guns to many heads are now seen to be what they were, a poor pretext, but it worked.

Now that we can hopefully open our eyes and see the BILLION$ of DOLLAR$ handed down in payouts (or payoffs ;-) to the concentrated core of shareholders along with HUGE mega salary increase and bonus to the Big Bosses "at the top", even as they gorge on huge pieces of cake at our expense as we are given mere crumbs for uncontrollable/unaccountable OTP and CSI markers. We should now realise CCAA was a red herring rouse and even the 10-Year Repayment schedule for the Pension Plan is yet in jeopardy since they are selling off as many assets and giving away CA$H reserves as they can (as ACPA and other unions enjoined in the suit have allied to sue for). What once was one of the most widely dispersed stock-shares within Canada prior CCAA is now one of the most concentrated in the hand of Vulture Funds in/out-side of Canada, as well as a respectful portion of our assets were unencumbered, we now have mostly encumbered assets.

The ones we do have control over and the Union Reps, so time to put our money where our mouths are and elect only those that have the resolve to "represent" OUR best interest as we move closer to 2009!

In Solidarity,

Umberto · April 28th, 2007, 20:08

What you all must remember is that we live in a world where by 2009 you will NOT be working for Air Canada anymore and you will be competing for work with all the MRO's of the world.Also remember we are guaranted work on the A330 A340 b767 which will be all or mostly all replaced by 2009.Remeber also if you know your agreement well that totality of the work for the b777 and b787 is not ours automatically.Sorry to burst your bubble but that work has to be competitvly negotiates with A/C but the new Owners of ACTS if we are even still called that.Remember also that we are the best paid Airline or aircraft workers in Canada presently.Therefore if we get greddy they will and can go elsewhere without even having to bring in workers,they will simply send it to other MRO's ,and we will slowly dwindle away.Lets be careful guys,very careful.

jet doctor · April 29th, 2007, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umberto

What you all must remember is that we live in a world where by 2009 you will NOT be working for Air Canada anymore and you will be competing for work with all the MRO's of the world.Also remember we are guaranted work on the A330 A340 b767 which will be all or mostly all replaced by 2009.Remeber also if you know your agreement well that totality of the work for the b777 and b787 is not ours automatically.Sorry to burst your bubble but that work has to be competitvly negotiates with A/C but the new Owners of ACTS if we are even still called that.Remember also that we are the best paid Airline or aircraft workers in Canada presently.Therefore if we get greddy they will and can go elsewhere without even having to bring in workers,they will simply send it to other MRO's ,and we will slowly dwindle away.Lets be careful guys,very careful.

FYI,
Not all of us are ACTS or even ACM here.
As to the wage being the highest in Canada, not even close! Trans AT, West Jet, Skyservice are all making more per hour than we at AC.

I suspect that ACTS will be gone before 2009, maybe before the end of this year, who knows with Milton.

Umberto · May 1st, 2007, 19:05

West Jet has line MTCE only and sends all of its components out to cheaper MROs .As for Air Transat,they are the new building here in Dorval right beside us they too only do minimal line MTCE and send most out to Haeco in China .Skyservice's Mtce is spread out all ovee the world to MRO's ,that a way lower paid than us.Why do you think we lost Delta,they went for cheaper (Haeco) China for most of it.wake up guys !!! Once we get owned by ONEX (Hope its not them) they love splitting up there companies usually aftre 2 yrs or so to maximize there investement,there motto I believe is divide and conquer.

mikey11 · May 2nd, 2007, 11:28

Westjet send their planes to MRO's such as Cascade Aerospace in Abbotsford, B.C. http://www.cascadeaerospace.com/ They pay from $22 to $26 for an AME. I do not think you would class them as a cheap MRO at these wages and yet they continue to receive planes to work on. Have been to the facility and talked to them , they pay a little less as the cost of living is cheaper than living in Vancouver ( and working in YVR). There does not seem to be rush to complete a job and recently joined a union ( I believe CAW) . Maybe the management structure is different to allow them to compete.

RogerD@YYZ · May 30th, 2007, 19:15

It's precisely the concession mood/mode which some foster that will sink us further into a deeper morass if we go there again and it's a chasm and deep divide we should not re-adventure into, because it's slippery slope we need to reverse or it’s be a peril for the future of AC.

I'm not sure what all the various 2009 Union Committees are gearing up to do, but I know behind the scenes, CAW is mobilizing because the core rank-and-file have had enough and the known and apparent message is smarten up or face de-certification and a new trade union.

From a CAW/CSSA perspective, we have safeguards in place that are contractual and the law.

Articles 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 4, 18.05, 19.03 and 21. These are supported by the LAC and CIRB case files. And the Canada Labour Code.

TCA>AC>ACE>ACGHS are still all governed under the auspices of the ACPPA ...

It's important to note that the last time Harper's Conservatives attempted to toy with that piece of legislation to dismantle it, first in line to protest was Gilles Duceppe and his BLOC Quebecois. He knows where his political bread is buttered and he was talking ad infinitum about the National Flag Carrier and he was not talking the Fleur-De-Lys but Maple Leaf flag. The NDP and Liberals were quick in tow and Harper suffered in/at the polls that time before he succeeded through another door for this round of Minority Government. If he feels the need and want to test the waters on that issue again, let him go RIGHT ahead.

It was also AC during Merger Mania who applied for Common Employer Status (AC/CP), so that should bode well if-n-when they try to spin-n-sell ACGHS. That still could not get them around the OAC/CAW C.A. Contract especially the valuable-n-valued scope clause (Art. 4), so they had to negotiate their way out of it (Loyalty/Signing Bonus), while abandoning the OCP/CAW C.A. Contract.

As for Business Models, it's well-known that we are not the only business model out there. AF/KL has a different one and in fact has been even more successful than ours. There's a big debate in Business Schools as to which is more effective and the reigning consensus is for the EU model for longer-term and over-all effectiveness for ALL stake-holders involved. That's the difference over the NA (sic US) model and time will tell which wins over and for whom... (For those interested in the AF/KL merger, peruse previous posts in this forum).

Last but not least is the ACGHS division, which involves Ground Services Below-The-Wing, IAM SA's and CAW CSSA's...

Our boss, Chantal Baril has noted the following caveat... which those with ACcess to afFINity can inspect for themselves. << With our current cost structure, we have difficulty competing on price. But we do have more than 70 years in the business, a number of great ambassadors, and the people with the ability to outperform our customers’ expectations. >>

No kidding!!!

Who remembers the 36+ Contract Carriers we handled in the YYZ's T2Zoo with limited facilities and our own flights to boot. Each of those ground handling contracts were touted to be in the $1MC vicinity and we practically shoved them out the door when those on high decided we did not want to handle OAL's anymore. Now they want them back??? At what CO$T??? One can only imagine and for what pretext and reasons, eh??? And that does not even take into account similar handling ventures in YUL, YVR, LHR and elsewhere...

2009 is coming and we better be prepared, otherwise those that have little interest in longer term futures will steer and guide the ship, then they'll most likely bail and jump ship, taking whatever booty pirates are known to pillage including whatever remnants are left of the cooked goose.

As my dear wise old departed granny often said, "they get away with what we let them"...

Respect...

bohg · June 1st, 2007, 13:27

yes i would give more concessions because when if i loose my head and it falls onto the floor , I can still eat yogurt.

hangman · June 7th, 2007, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohg

yes i would give more concessions because when if i loose my head and it falls onto the floor , I can still eat yogurt.

Hey bohg.......go get a job at Macdonalds.....that way you can give all the concessions you want without loosing your head.....noooo.....from your comments you already lost your head.....just go eat some yogurt off the floor...........my thoughts.....the hangman........

RogerD@YYZ · June 12th, 2007, 04:44

What does UD.ca Shop Talk know about the latest rumours on the shop floor about ACE sniffing around ACGHS (IAM/CAW) to extend the contract another year to 2010?

The word is that they want to play games to avoid any tarnish to AC's official status for the real games out west.

Many wondered what the next pretext would be to once again extend the contract (which is another disguised concession) before terms were up and they've found one.

Well here's another weapon to arm our trade union arsenal when it comes time for negotes, which hits close to home.

http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/200...2007scc27.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/National

Keep the push on for Anti-Scab and Workers First legislation and continue to put aside some pennies for a rainy day in 2009, capiche?

When it comes time, we have no excuses if we decide to bend over and take another up the (uknowwhat) for the team.

They will get away with what we let them so to .... with the excuses.

Tony Turtlo (RAW-CAW) has sent out word, get ready to rumble.